Kosmar redefines 'Night Flight'

by **mac2708** on Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:14 pm

Most tour operators define a 'Night Flight' as being between 23.00 and 06.00- the start of night varies between companies but it always ends at 06.00.
Kosmar appear to have rewritten the dictionary definition of the word 'night' which is "The time between sunset and sunrise. A period of darkness". They consider it to be between 20.00 and 04.30!!! How can anyone call 04.30 daytime???
The reason I mention this is because they have changed my outbound flight twice since it was booked. The original time was 07.10, it's now 05.30 but may well change again (no doubt to an even earlier time).
I considered changing the destination but have discoverd that all flights between 07.10 and 14.10 have now been rescheduled to between 05.30 and 06.00.
How can they be allowed to get away with this sort of thing? Their Customer Services' attitude was "...well, take it or leave it..."

by **HW Chris** on Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:29 pm

Hi Mac,

Welcome to Holiday Watchdog.

I believe that an operator is allowed to alter the times of your flights, so long as the new times remain within 12 hours of your original scheduled departure time.

If you check the small print (Yes the bit that not even I read) you can normally find that inside the 12 hours they can pretty much do what the please - within reason and they will not have to offer you any other options. E.g. FOC cancellation or Amendment.

"I considered changing the destination but have discovered that all flights between 07.10 and 14.10 have now been rescheduled to between 05.30 and 06.00."

If all there flights have changed, it sounds like the Airline fault rather than Kosmar.

If I was you and I was really not happy with what I had been offered. I would try and squeeze a Free of Charge cancellation out of them, but it isn't guaranteed they will budge.

Let us know what they say.

Chris

by **mac2708** on Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:47 pm

Whilst agree it *may* well be the airline's fault,my contract is with Kosmar.
I may well have a comeback with the Travel Shop, whose Terms and Conditions state
"You will be asked to read and accept the tour operators terms and conditions prior to booking..."
I do not consider being handed a copy of the brochure after signing that they have carried out their own procedure correctly.
Having searched through many other sites on the subject of 'Night Flights' it universally accepted that in English law
'Night' means between 23.00 and 0.700 but the government lopped off an hour to allow unrestricted flights after 06.00"
My flight is now 05.30 which is officially 'night'. Do Kosmar get away with 04.30 because they are registered in Greece?
I'll let you know what happens

by **joolz** on Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:27 am

while i totally agree with you regarding the flight time changes, you will be fobbed off with the terms and conditions in the brochure at every stage of your complaint. this gives the tour operator a free hand to change flight times as and when they need to. And although your contract is with Kosmar and not the airline, these are their booking conditions and not the airlines. i do however think that you have a very valid point when it comes to the definition of night flights. is this going to open the floodgates for all the other operators to re-define the term also?
good luck with this and i will be looking out for updates on any response you get from Kosmar.

by **mac2708** on Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:55 am

Success :cheese:
After even more discussions with the travel agent and the Operations Department at Kosmar, it was agreed tp let me choose a different holiday without having to pay the 60% penalty (as it's within 6 weeks of departure).
So the destination is Halkidiki on 13/05/04 leaving at 08.30 instead of Corfu on 03/05/04 leaving at 05.30.
The Travel Shop even re-arranged the car-park booking without being asked to.
I still intend to persue this matter of 'Night Flights', but beleive it or not, ABTA do not have any rules regarding this, and all they will say is "It depends on the tour operators terms and conditions"
However, as there is a statutory definition of 'Night Flight' and 'night time', it seems fairly clear that ABTA have not read closely the terms and conditions in Kosmar's brochure and that Kosmar themselves appear to be flaunting the law (and re-writing the dictionary) to suit their own ends

by **joolz** on Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:12 pm

well done!!!! it seems to me to be the very least that kosmar could do in letting you amend your holiday to something with more suitable flights free of charge. good luck with ABTA.

by **Sazz** on Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:22 pm

:sunny: Congrats mac, its nice to see it turned out well for you, hope you have a great holiday.

Goes to show its worth taking things further but a shame that you had to do that in the first place.

:sunny:

by **HW Chris** on Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:10 pm

Yes, Well Done Mac.

Glad they gave in and didn't decide to fight it out. Shame that not all Tour Operators are this helpful. It would save everybodies time and money in the long run.

Have a good holiday and don't forget to send us your review! :thumrigh:

Chris

by **hurdler** on Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:07 pm

I know night flights are not great but surely its better than paying the exorbitant supplements with some tour operators.We have been going with Kosmar several times a year for the last few years and have only had one previous night flight.We go in 6 weeks and have just had our return flight changed from 4am to 4pm so it works both ways.Ultimately enjoying the holiday is the important bit.

by **BrianJackson** on Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:27 am

I must admit, I have used many holiday companies, and they all seem to have the same lack of understanding as to just how important a holiday is to most people. It's the highlight of the year in a lot of cases.

So when changes are made, a "blunt and to the point" letter is not well received ! In a lot of cases the fault may be with someone other than with the holiday company - but it's up to THEM to convince the customer that they DO care and that they ARE concerned, and WILL do their best to accommodate you.

They have a lot to learn. The impression people still have of holiday companies, is that once they've got your money - thats it. Customer service ends at that point. I know its not always true, but it's what people think.