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HW Techie
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05-09-2007 10:17 AM
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 1704
My Profile
| From today's Daily Telegraph -
"Holidaymakers have been warned not to rely on many of the reviews that are posted on increasingly popular traveller websites - because they are written by the hotels themselves.
Review websites, such as Tripadvisor, Holidaywatchdog or Virtualtourist - with reviews written by customers - have sprung up in recent years and become very popular with holidaymakers.
However, the consumer group Which?, in a report published today, warns that many of the glowing reviews are posted by the hoteliers and restaurateurs themselves."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml? xml=/money/2007/09/05/cnhol105.xml
"Neil Fazakerley, at Holiday Which? magazine, said: "I used to think user websites were a great idea, then I visited some hotels which had decent reviews and they were rubbish. My opinion now is that a hotel which has bad reviews is probably bad, but a hotel with good reviews might not be that good.""
Discuss -
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My Latest Review: May 2007 Sunrise Beach Paraiso Playa Hotel, Playa De Jandia (8/10) + Photos
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Jan.C
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05-09-2007 10:24 AM
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 2372
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| well cant speak for everyone but I think that is total rubbish,, this web site is a gold mine of information on anyone looking to book holidays, I always look at reviews before I book myself and always have done. Looking through holidaywatchdog many reviews are not that flattering and then some are glowing, it depends on what your looking for from a holiday, everyone is different. I KNOW holidaywatchdog is an honest review site and the reviews are all checked and if at all suspect they are binned. we rely on holidaymakers from every walk of life to give their unbiast aspects of their holidays and hotels. I cannot speak for other review sites but I know this is the best review site on the internet for honest opinions on hotels etc.
Jan x
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My Latest Review: Aug 2008 Norton Lodge Hotel & Conference Centre, Norton Disney (10/10)
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pubestone
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05-09-2007 12:22 PM
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 29
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| My advice is, take reviews with a pinch of salt, the main website that was pinpointed as a huge culprit was Trip Advisor, which only seems to print what suits them anyway and is full of locals promoting themselves, a FACT! Also reps have been using TA to initaiate scare tactic to try to push people into paying for their overpriced excursions going on about insurance etc. Well, guess what, you are not insured either way! Your normal holiday insurance is all you need. Check for yourselves.
Apparently hoteliers have been getting their own staff to make bogus reviews and also leave bogus bad reviews on hotels they are in competition with, so who can you trust? Not TA for a start. As Whoch mentioned TA having the owrst record of bogus reviews, i wouldnt believe a word that is printed onthe review pages whatsoever. Best opinion, your OWN!
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My Latest Review: Jun 2006 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (10/10)
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tenpin
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05-09-2007 01:03 PM
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Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1569
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A fairly easy way to judge is by the number of posts a member has, or even if we are familiar with the posters name.
On this site I would think that anything over 50 posts would be a good indication that a member comes in regularly.
Even so please judge by your own opinion and that of our fabled reviewers.
Just a thought on this, could we list date of joining & No of post on the reveiws?
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My Latest Review: Jun 2008 Grand Princess Cruise Ship (9/10)
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pubestone
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05-09-2007 02:58 PM
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 29
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| Tenpin,
that is a great idea, i also think that any hotel that maybe providing fake reviews who are caught out (all sent fromt he same IP address etc) should be listed, who would want to stay at an hotel who does something like this? I wouldnt and would like to know of any hptel posting fake reviews, i shouldnt think it is hard to acheive for HW and others?
Some forums are slowly turning into a farce, it is such a shame there are so many people spoiling it for others. There are the nasty posters who only post to start an argument, there are the mountain of touters and reps posting fake stuff and using multiple usernames on various forums (always can tell due to the grammer etc who they are) and then the others who only go on for a laugh and abuse others. I am sure the majority of people are genuine, but as hoteliers, reps, touts know about these sites now, they are using them for thier own personal gain other than what they were meant for, swapping stories, giving travel related advice and holiday tips, what is happening to these sites? Why do the moderators allow this to happen?
I have been followed by a local idiot from Egypt from forum to forum, i had to inform HW why i wanted the username i was using removed (it wasnt and i wont refer to it because of this idiot) but thats another story.
There are two taxi drivers in Sharm who uses a multitude of usernames to try and gain business, one brit female uses fear as a marketing tool, on here are Alibabas, on TA as Ally19, DahabAlly, etc etc to name a few and now AshleyJP on Trip Advisor, why do the forum allow this to happen? The male usernames are Elembaby, Ramy97 and to many others to mention, just be careful if approached by these individuals.
Advice from a mod would be useful right now and what they intend to do to police it better.
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My Latest Review: Jun 2006 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (10/10)
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pubestone
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05-09-2007 03:42 PM
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 29
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| Techie,
the question is how can the mods make sure fake reviews are not being posted? Will the mods note if multiple reviews are being made about the same hotel from the same computer?
Would you consider compiling a list for members to view if it is found that a certain hotel is expoilting this site or trying to defame another hotel it is competative with? I certainly would question if i want to stay at a hotel if the staff post fake reviews.
Would HW take action with touts and reps using this site for their own personal gain?
I know it must be difficult challenge but the protection of your members/veiwers is paramount. It is a shame that sites like this will be treated as an advertising platform rather than an honest information source.
Members and viewers rely on honesty of others, its is a huge shame this have been brought to light today as i dont know what to trust now.
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My Latest Review: Jun 2006 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (10/10)
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HW Techie
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05-09-2007 03:59 PM
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 1704
My Profile
| the question is how can the mods make sure fake reviews are not being posted? Will the mods note if multiple reviews are being made about the same hotel from the same computer?
We have several ways of combatting this, including IP checks. We work very hard to ensure all the reviews are genuine that get published on the site.
Would you consider compiling a list for members to view if it is found that a certain hotel is expoilting this site or trying to defame another hotel it is competative with? I certainly would question if i want to stay at a hotel if the staff post fake reviews.
Although it's not too difficult to pick up 99% of fake reviews, it's nearly impossible to state who posted the fake reviews. So it wouldn't be fair to list hotels we get fake reviews for as then their competition could use that against them. Hope that makes sense?
Would HW take action with touts and reps using this site for their own personal gain?
We try to prevent everyone and anyone from spamming the site. We are happy for people to plug their business if they are here to generally help others. CarolG is a great example of this, she never has spammed the forum, but everyone with an interest in going to Turkey knows she has a Travel Agency in Icmeler and respect her for her honest and helpful posts.
I know it must be difficult challenge but the protection of your members/veiwers is paramount. It is a shame that sites like this will be treated as an advertising platform rather than an honest information source.
Again, we don't allow people just to flog their wares on the site anywhere.
Members and viewers rely on honesty of others, its is a huge shame this have been brought to light today as i dont know what to trust now.
OK, I've been keeping this one bottled up all day -
Today's news that some reviews on holiday review sites like this one, are bogus isn't really new.
Last November this story ran across several Sunday papers, and pointed out several hoteliers who had posted positive reviews on TripAdvisor and other sites, then admitted doing so.
There are always going to be some "dubious" reviews that slip through the net.
Holiday Which? are the company behind the press release that recycled this story again. What possible agenda could they have? Hmm.. possibly getting you to sign up for a subscription to access their "expert" reviews?
They also seemed to assume that the great British public were so gullible as to believe every review written on these sites. I don't think anyone who uses review sites for any product would completely give over their self-will and not be able to apply their own judgements.
There you go, I feel better.
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My Latest Review: May 2007 Sunrise Beach Paraiso Playa Hotel, Playa De Jandia (8/10) + Photos
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John
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05-09-2007 04:30 PM
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Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 1121
My Profile
| Any publicity is good publicity, glad to see the name in lights.
Shame on the media, as always it must have been a slow news day but we all know, you cant believe the crap you read in the comics.
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My Latest Review: Oct 2007 Las Torres Apartments, Benidorm (9/10)
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pubestone
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05-09-2007 04:39 PM
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 29
My Profile
| apologies, i dont buy papers much or see the news much so was not aware of this last year.
I really appreciate your detailed response and understand where you are coming from.
It just makes me mad, this forum isnt to bad compared to others i wont continue to name, but it have made me dubious all the same, however, i do take reviews with a pinch of salt. If i believed all i read about Kiroseiz, St Goerge and Ghazala Gardens, i would never have gone, but you know what? I had the time of my life and that what matters most.
What is also nice about HW is the mods are active on the boards, not juut lurking in the background, so this is such a refreshing change. This is why i have stopped using Trip Advisor as it is policed by its members who only wants printed what suits them, then sends you a tirade of abuse when you dont agree with them.
Kind regards and thanks again.
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My Latest Review: Jun 2006 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (10/10)
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lilibet
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05-09-2007 06:58 PM
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Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 209
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| To suggest that this site is used by those people who only want to promote or publicise their own properties I think is outnumbered by the many genuine users who apart form putting their own personal reviews on the site talk to other holiday makers which is demonstrated by the varied posts which are here. I havent looked in great detail at the sites which are reported to go in for self promotion, but as I have commented on before against a previous post it is good to see that the opinions of the users is published whether this is good or bad.
There will be cases where users have very different experiences of any holiday location or accommodation they go to and it is up to the users of the site to make their own judgement.
I feel it would be grossly unfair to suggest that the moderators are not committed to the factual information which is posted here and again i would point anyone with doubts to look at the number of member, the time they have been members and the posts which are here.
If the publicity has managed to encourage more people to come and to look at this site then that can only be a good thing, people however are free to make their own minds up and it is refreshing to see that we have a site where there is the free and frank discussion forum which allows both side of any arguement to be aired, surely this would not be the case if this site only represented the good by the promoters of such.
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My Latest Review: Mar 2008 Hotel Continental, Palma City (10/10)
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iaintwoeyes
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05-09-2007 07:45 PM
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2246
My Profile
| As Expertcruiser said, even negative publicity is good publicity!! Thank you Which and GMTV
Personally I would like someone from Which or GMTV to come and join this discussion.
This forum is used for the purpose of research. It is a usuful tool to find what others think about hotels. However, as others have said, you have to read carefully as different people want different things from a hotel.
Often the review is diluted with lots of other information that has nothing to do with the hotel. We leave this information in the review as it is important for "review creditibilty". Recently one hotel that often scores 9/10 or 10/10 got a 5/10 and a 6/10. This wasn't down to the hotel, this was due to problems with other elements of the holiday.
So......read carefully.
As a previous thread has stated and it has been said in this thread, the mods work hard at keeping the HW House in order! All posts are mapped.....we know where everyone is!!!! (Country, city or town)
All bogus posts and self promotional posts are dealt with quickly and the user will usually get their computer address banned.
At the end of the day, the general public will decide the success of hotel review sites and the future of Which!
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My Latest Review: Jun 2008 Hardwick Hall Hotel, Sedgefield (7/10)
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mgzt260
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23-09-2007 07:46 PM
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 7
| I tend to agree that the main faking issues are with Tripadviser. I went to a hotel in Italy that openly told me they'd written a few themselves for TA!
I think the likes of Holiday Watchdog and **** give a far more accurate view of overseas holiday hotels used by the UK public.
I've always found both sites to be totally accurate - not so of TA!
If there's lot of reviews it's very unlikely that they're all fake!
Stick with UK based review sites like HW, HU and even HT's I'd say.
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My Latest Review: Sep 2007 Sol Gorriones Hotel, Costa Calma (7/10)
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Surfer Chick
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03-11-2007 01:50 PM
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Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
My Profile
| I tend to find that its the opposite. I have read reviews-both good and bad, and have still been on the holiday and found i loved it majority of the time!!
Reviews are all very personal anyway. No two people are the same and everyone has different preferences so one person could love a hotel which another person could think is a complete dive.
With regards to hotels posting their own opionions....whos to stop them!? everyone needs business and these sites and forums are for peoples opinions and advice so why not?
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My Latest Review: Jul 2006 Occidental Caribbean Village Hotel, Agadir (9/10)
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iaintwoeyes
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03-11-2007 06:57 PM
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2246
My Profile
| Surfer Chick.....we'll stop them!!
This site is all about genuine visitors to hotels, not staff or management posting biased reviews.
It is quite easily to spot fake reviews and our team of reviewers review every review prior to it being posted on the site.
As far as forums go....we map all IP addresses and agian...if its evident that's the post is spam then the post gets deleted and the user banned.
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My Latest Review: Jun 2008 Hardwick Hall Hotel, Sedgefield (7/10)
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sun, sea and sand
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04-11-2007 02:36 PM
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Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 60
My Profile
| Just thought I'd stick my two pence worth in. I read the reviews on this site and others before booking but I'm also aware that they should be taken with a pinch of salt. As someone else has said you can read about a hotel that gets 9/10 or 10/10 but the same hotel will also get a 5/10. I'm inclined to think that it's a miserable so and so who is looking for things to complain about rather than a rival hotel going to the trouble of writing a bad review.
Perhaps I'm just naive but as long as you have an idea what to expect from the majority of reviews you can make your own judgement. All the holidays I have booked after reading holiday review sites have been great and the reviews proved to be accurate.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Crystallo Apartments, Paphos (7/10)
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andy jarvis
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04-11-2007 03:27 PM
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Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 33
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| I've seen reviews I just fail to believe, in particular We stayed at the Houda in Skannes Tunisia the end of september begining of october, this was our second time there. We really enjoyed ourselves, suffered no upset stomachs or other illnesses, found the staff friendly and courteous and the hotel spotlessly clean yet people who must have been there the same time as us have given the Houda some really poor reviews complaining about upset stomachs (aparently half the hotel guests were suffering) poor cleanliness (cleaners were on the go 24/7 working very hard to clean up after messy guests), Rude staff (absolutly not) Poolside activities and music being compaired to what you would expect from a Club 18-30 resort (excuse me, all the activities were aimed at the family and the music was not that load), pool never cleaned (funny that, the pool was vacuumed 3 times a day, Oh and even complaints about the sea and beach being dirty because of a little seaweed acctualy the sea and the beach are pretty clean. Obviously different people have different ideas on what they expect but I think a lot of people think just because it's not for them and they didn't enjoy themselves then nnobody else should dare to like the place, I do feel that many issues are greatly exagerated. Knowing what I do about the Houda in particular I take any review with a pinch of salt.
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My Latest Review: Oct 2007 Houda Golf & Beach Club Hotel, Skanes (9/10)
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Surfer Chick
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11-11-2007 01:26 PM
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Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
My Profile
| Iain-Fair enough!
I completely agree with andy.
Hotels with bad reviews are not always bad. As Iain stated, people post their OPINIONS. Anyone who chooses to base their holiday on these opinions, it is entirely their choice but i certainly would not let reviews stop me going somewhere. Not a crowd follower, i prefer to make my own mind up!!
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My Latest Review: Jul 2006 Occidental Caribbean Village Hotel, Agadir (9/10)
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andy jarvis
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11-11-2007 06:49 PM
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Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 33
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| Sorry if I keep using one hotel as an example but here is the Latest report on the Houda, obviously this person did have some issues but I can assure you this is blatently exagerated in many areas.
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My husband and I have just returned from the worst holiday that we have ever had, my husband is still undergoing treatment for diarrhoea and sickness. He has lost 3 stone in the past 8 days, this hotel rates itself as 3 *, whether 1* or 5* basic food hygiene should still count. We monitored the same cold meat tray for 4 days before being changed. Constant recooking of meat from one day to the next, vegetables in place for 3 days constantly with flies included.
As all inclusive, we foolishly believed that food and drink would be available from 10am till 12 midnight, not so, as in previous reviews, you were allocated times when you could queue for your food then go to your allocated table, to eat your now cold food. Constantly being bitten by the mosquitoes and gnats, which lay in wait for you under your table, whilst shooing off the flies around your head, not a pleasant experience.
The advertised golden sandy beaches were not in fact golden but were covered in horse faeces, which covered 30% of the beach, the rest of the beach was covered in a thick string like seaweed and garbage such as empty plastic bottles and cans and old shoes. Not the romantic walks we expected, how parents let their children play in this water is a mystery, the beach was definitely a health hazard and should be investigated.
Disappointment followed disappointment, our rooms were basic as expected, however the tv did not work, the maid did come in every day whether you put the "do not disturb" notice out or not, they then proceeded to make the bed and do designs with the towels and sheets and for reasons known only to her, make designs from your worn underwear, what they did not do was clean!
The First Choice rep was nowhere to be seen, we only met him two days before leaving by chance to tell us the procedure for leaving the hotel.
Most of the advertised facilities were unavailable, the sauna was closed, the fitness room was closed, pedalos were in disrepair and in our opinion unsafe. The snack bar by the pools were closed whilst most of the " Animation " team were professional in how they conducted themselves, Rico and Carlos spring to mind, one of their team did let them down, my husband and I were accosted by one and told to send him (brand name) clothes from England, he did apologise after we complained.
We changed up money three times in the hotel and twice we were given the incorrect amount and had to challenge the person behind the desk, not a good sign.
To sum it up, we went on this holiday for the all inclusive food and drink, the beach, sun and a relaxing holiday, none of our expectations were fulfilled, what is the point of all inclusive if its impossible to consume what is available, we will not be returning.
Unquote
I know this place well and a few things don't ring true here.
First thing that sticks out is the complaint about food and drink not being available, the actuall truth is that the main bar opens at 10am and closses at midnight, the night club bar opens at about 9pm and closses at 2am the snack bar starts serving food at 11am throught till 4pm then re-opens late at night, there are more than adequate facilities to eat outside main meal times without spending money.
Secondly, the beach at the Houda is quite small but it would take an awfull lot of horses to cover 30% of the beach in manure, people do ride horses along the beach, as they do in many euro resorts and even in this country, horses are not house trained so inevitably they will poo where they like, however I can honestly say I have never seen horse poo on the Houda beach.
Thirdly, Seeweed on the beach, get a life please, seeweed is a natural substance and late summer/autumn it does start to break down, doesn't mean the sea is polluted, I was there early october and the seeweed was breaking up yet I had fish swimming round me some of them were 2-3lbs, as for rubbish on the beach, this is down to the the guests that think just because they are on holliday someone else can clean up the mess, the beach staff seem to spend a lot of their time cleaning up after thoughtless guests.
Forthly, the First Choice rep is there every day exept Fridays (Day off) and Sunday (Airport Duties) the times he is there are well documented, in the First Choice information folder, on the notice board and in the info given at the welcome meeting.
Sorry to hijack the thread but IMHO this is a prime example of what I would call a bogus review, as I have said I know the place well and have been twice at roughly the same time as the person who posted this review, it is obvious that something happened to this person whilst there that caused her to exagerate some issues and post a very negative review aimed at putting people off. In this case I would ask the moderators to look at the review and perhaps remove it.
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My Latest Review: Oct 2007 Houda Golf & Beach Club Hotel, Skanes (9/10)
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Warning over bogus holiday reviews
