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antded
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06-08-2007 05:38 PM
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 1
| Just returned from Portugal and wondered if anyone had heard of the above holiday club.
We are looking to join a genuine club ( I know they exist somewhere) but were approached by the above company via the timeshare 'kidnap'. However the sales person was very honest in saying that the kidnap tactic was not very ethical but is was a good way of getting people in (10/10 for honesty) The product looks very good at £7K - you can view at www.clubclassconcierge.com but we are very sceptical.
It was pretty hard sell but have not parted with any money yet although we have signed a contract which from scrutiny it appears they can not hold us to parting with any money.
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abslink
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28-08-2007 02:32 PM
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Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 12
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| Reply to northern62:
You will get membership of club class - for what it is worth.
If you are really going to get free European holidays (there will surely be a hefty admin fee and taxes to pay) they must be what is known as 'fly-buy' where you are subjected to a full day of hard sell to buy timeshare or related products, fail to attend and they'll want the full price of the holiday from you.
The extra holidays at so called 'cost price' you will find as cheap or cheaper on the internet.
Don't expect much in the way of availability if you need to go in school holiday time.
Cashback - if you follow the instructions exactly on the right days you might get 10% back, most people get nothing.
If you are within 10 days of signing up you should be able to cancel, dispite what the contract says, claim gross misrepresentation and credit card companies often will 'claw back' the deposit if you make enough fuss.
After this time your deposit is gone, but you should not pay them any more money if you have doubts - and reading the stories on this forum will provide you with plenty of doubts.
They will threaten to persue you for the balance, they will threaten you with court or debt collectors but if you choose this path you must totally ignore all correspondence from them and particularly do not speak to them on the phone. It can be scary getting these letters but they NEVER follow them through - again reading the many stories on this forum helps convince you of this. The only method they try to use to get more money is scary letters, they know their operation will not stand up to court scrutiny.
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Fred 2
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28-08-2007 03:15 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1932
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| I agree with much of the above, however to clarify the 10 day period with CC companies refers to the "cooling-off" period which some allow as a matter of course, and during which they will claw back. In the case of proven misrepresentation there is no such time limit and, provided that a claim is made within a reasonable period, the CC company is obliged to refund (although they may need pressure) - whether or not they subsequently get it back from the supplier is their problem.
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northern62
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28-08-2007 04:44 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 164
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| I appreciate all the advice. I don't know if I have been misled, firstly there is no get out clause, secondly there is no copy of Cashback Promotions terms and conditions, just a disclaimer from (GB Marketing who the contract is with) saying they are not responsible for any disputes with the cashback company.
They still claim today that I will be able to claim £7500 in 59 months time. How can I prove NOW that this is not the case.
By the way the contract was signed 20/8/07.
I have asked to pay the balance by credit card as a safe guard to me but they have refused this.
They will contact me again next Monday.
The actual wording: Quote:
Your membership with Cashback is to be paid by Cashback Promotion, in the sum of £7,500 (SEVEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED POUNDS) 59 months after initial registration.
Your balance of £4200 is due to be paid, as per your agreement, on 20/09/2007 by bank tranfer.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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pigtails
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28-08-2007 05:08 PM
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Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 32
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| This is a bit of support for Fred2. I thought the attack on him was unwarrented. His advice is very good and free. It is up to you whether you take it or not but reading past discussion forums many people do and get their money back. I enjoy reading the forum. I had a time share many many years ago and it worked well enough but the money we were spending on maintenance fees was getting beond a joke. The ways people are lured into the talks have not changed much. What I did notice one year when I did not have on my wedding rings was that we were ignored by the touts. They were targeting married couples. Dont know if that has changed.
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My Latest Review: Oct 2007 Normandy Hotel Glasgow Airport, Glasgow (5/10)
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northern62
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28-08-2007 05:18 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 164
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| Pigtails:
Yes it is still a very hard sell. I have enjoyed using the rci system and yes availability is getting more and more limited. But club class appealed to me because my children are mid - teens so I have to pay full price for them plus they would like to take their friends. What I don't really grasp is the fact I would be paying £7500 which should pay for the next 6 holidays (the are not freebies) annual membership to club class is £95.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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Fred 2
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28-08-2007 05:29 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1932
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| Thank you Pigtails. Appreciated.
Northerner 62, I didn't mean a getout clause for you - there won't be one. I meant a getout clause for them if they don't provide what they say they will by way of holidays.
Why not ask for a copy of the cash back company's terms including the full name and domicile of that company? It would be completely unreasonable for them to expect you to pay anything further until you have seen all the conditions for everything that you are signed up to. I have not heard of Cashback Promotion as a company name and I would not accept any assurance from a company which then says that it has no responsibility whatever for what you get.
According to the Timeshare Consumers' Association no-one gets their cash back money from any of these operations. This may be slightly inaccurate, but only slightly. You can be sure that you won't get it because there is no fund to produce it apart from the £600 I mentioned which, short putting it on a good horse, is not going to make 7.5k in many years.
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Fred 2
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28-08-2007 05:42 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1932
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| Just checked & there is a similar tale on Timesharetalk
www.timesharetalk.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5663
The company which GB Marketing used then was Casback Sales & Admninistration SL & I bet that is what they are using now. CashBack has recently refused to pay out valid claims.
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northern62
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28-08-2007 06:20 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 164
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| fred 2
thanks for all your advice. I have gone through these web sites you have mentioned and made a few copies. I will definately request a copy of the terms and conditions, whether I get them or not is another matter.
I think that a visit to Office of Fair Trading or Citizen Advice is my best bet.
Thanks to all for your help and support.
Will keep you posted.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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kimberley k
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28-08-2007 06:42 PM
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 33
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| Fred 2, my own sad horrible experience taught me to be very sceptical when dealing with anyone or anything connected to TIMESHARE. The people are sharks who prey on honest trusting people.
If your reason for spending so much time on these sites is indeed only to help such people then possibly you should be in line for an O.B.E. or similar recognition but if anything else the truth will eventually come out. I hope it is the former and if so keep up the good work.
TIMESHARE in all its variants should be totally banned, that would finally sort out all the problems.
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Fred 2
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28-08-2007 06:55 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1932
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| Kimberley k - it wasn't Timeshare that got you, it was Holiday Clubs - not that I want anything to do with either. Different beast because it is not regulated at all, hence your problem. While you were sounding off in March and April you may just have noticed what I was saying alongside you (and for about two years before that) - which should tell you which side I am on. If I was up to something I would have been found out long before you even appeared on the scene. If you wonder why I sometimes appear quite quickly, I use the PC a lot for storing and working on photography, so I leave a forum open on the back burner.
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northern62
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29-08-2007 01:52 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 164
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| Have just been advised by Trading Standards: As yet there has been NO breech of contract. The contract IS legal and binding. It looks like I shall have to pay the balance or risk them taking Me to court for breech of contract.
They have advised that I speak to the Timeshare Association but do not hold out much hope.
Those of you that have signed but not paid - you may still have to
Have not heard back from Sunday Mirror yet.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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Fred 2
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29-08-2007 03:35 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1932
My Profile
| Northern62 - Fair enough that there is no breach of contract unless and until it happens, however if you were told that you WOULD get 7.5k back via CashBack (not might) and the contract does not say that then you were seriously misled at the presentation. This is grounds for withdrawal. Did you mention this aspect to Trading Standards?
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northern62
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29-08-2007 06:10 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 164
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| Fred 2
The contract says as I quoted previously, that £7500 will be paid by cashback promotions in 59 months but that any disputes would be between us and that they are not responsible.
They still claim verbally that I will receive the cash if claimed for correctly,
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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Fred 2
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29-08-2007 06:43 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1932
My Profile
| I would only repeat that if they say that you WILL get 7.5k but the contract does NOT say that you WILL get 7.5k (having claimed properly) then you were misled.
The fact that they say they are not responsible for any disputes is neither here nor there. It is about whether they told the truth when selling you the deal. You won't know until you check the wording of the contract. If it is with CashBack then you can see what they say is their current form of contract at
http://www.cashback-sa.com/english/CashBacktandc.pdf
especially points 4 and 6.
CashBack put each 3 months' worth of receipts into a separate pot. The contribution made on your behalf by Club Class is about £600. This cannot on its own amount to 7.5k at the end of 59 months but may amount to £750 or 10% of face value. What they do is divide the pot at the end of the period by the number of successful applicants. If all are successful they of course get the guaranteed 10% i.e. their own money back. If fewer are successful they each get a bigger share. It is theoretically possible to get 100% but the mechanics of the scheme are such that they cannot and do not guarantee that everyone will get 100% because it is impossible and they are not stupid, so if a marketer says that you will without a shadow of a doubt get 100% they are lying and they know that they are lying. What you don't know of course is the size of the pot, the size of the other participants' certificates (any of which could be up to £30,000) or the number of successful ones. It is pretty much gambling.
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Fred 2
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29-08-2007 06:44 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1932
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| - by "contract" at line 1 above I of course mean the contract with the cash back operation.
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northern62
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30-08-2007 12:49 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 164
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| Fred 2
My entry 28/8/ 4.44pm quotes the actual wording on the contrat that I have signed. There is no contract withthe cashback company. My contract has an N.B added on saying that :
The cashback certificate offer that I have accepted is subject to terms and conditions imposed by a separate and independent company called Cashback Promotion, and that cashback promotion is wholly and soley responsibe for the return of the money I have paid. GB SL are not liable in the event of any dispute between me and Cashback Promotion.
I was led to believe (verbally of course) that Lloyds were trustees for this.
The pot of £7500 consists of £6000 paid in by me (which I so say get back) £1500 the interest earned on this will be payable to them in 59 months
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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Fred 2
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30-08-2007 01:46 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1932
My Profile
| OK I give up, and I don't usually. It's your money - or it was. GB Marketing and Cashback Promotions are both blacklisted and, from comments seen elsewhere, with reason. Do please though get, directly from Cashback Promotions, the real and certified terms and conditions of the cash back operation. Checking with Club Class that they will provide for you what GB says that they will would not be time wasted either.
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5three
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31-08-2007 01:04 PM
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Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 3
| Just got back from tenerife, and experienced, I have to say, a very pleasant bunch of people at TerraNova holidays selling Club Class Concierge. Of course, I'm not stupid, they are supposed to be pleasant! I have owned Timeshare for 19 years, and have been very happy with the arrangements so far, but like Northern62, family growing up, needs changing etc. etc. looking for a 'refresh' of the holiday options. Club Class Concierge seems to give me a combination that has not previously been offered. The offer is as follows.
I paid a deposit of £2400 on credit card
They, or I, arrange a 7year loan for total £8000
I pay my credit card bill of £2400 from the loan
I send them the remainder (£5600) via bankers draft
Total paid £8000
My commitment loan of £8000 over 7 years at £120 p/m
After 3 years Cashback europe send me £8000
I have an option then to sell my existing timeshare weeks to TerraNova for the price that I paid for them (£5000) 19 years ago.
I pay off my 7 year loan after 3 years.
Bottom line, it has cost me 3 years at £120 p/m = £4320
From the deal above I get £13000.
The £8000 is held in trust for three years with Cashback Europe. It is a trust fund. The £5000 paid for my timeshare will be used by TerraNova holidays / Club Class as part of their product portfolio.
I, and my wife in particular, are very sceptical of cashback deals. We asked the ultimate question "is there any way we won't get our money in 3years time?" the answer "only if something happens to both of you, and there is no proviso in your will"
It seems water tight.
Of course, all this is verbal at the moment, but, apart from the negative comments on these such sites, I do not see any grounds to disbelieve them.
Apart from the financials, the holiday club does look to offer the types of holidays I and my family will be looking for, and continued membership is only £95 / year.
There is no obligation to use them. They openly admit that they make their money on the holiday bookings that I make, so it is in their interest to provide the type of service I want.
It would seem that this 'trust' option is quite new, and would be interested in any thoughts.
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Club Class Concierge - Page 2
