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antded
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06-08-2007 05:38 PM
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 1
| Just returned from Portugal and wondered if anyone had heard of the above holiday club.
We are looking to join a genuine club ( I know they exist somewhere) but were approached by the above company via the timeshare 'kidnap'. However the sales person was very honest in saying that the kidnap tactic was not very ethical but is was a good way of getting people in (10/10 for honesty) The product looks very good at £7K - you can view at www.clubclassconcierge.com but we are very sceptical.
It was pretty hard sell but have not parted with any money yet although we have signed a contract which from scrutiny it appears they can not hold us to parting with any money.
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Fred 2
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31-08-2007 01:43 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1872
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| Now that is an interesting and comprehensive set of information, timely too. Isn't it?
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pigtails
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31-08-2007 03:24 PM
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Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 32
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| Oh my God. So this company gets you to take out a loan, which you have to pay back regardless, and they take the money, then they go bust, disappear off the face of the earth with your money. By taking out a loan you have no redress unlike if you pay by Credit Card where at least if the company goes bust the CC will pay you back. Or possible not if overseas transaction. I think some CC dispute their obligations then.
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My Latest Review: Oct 2007 Normandy Hotel Glasgow Airport, Glasgow (5/10)
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5three
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31-08-2007 04:00 PM
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Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 3
| I hear what you are all saying. Of course there is risk involved, just like buying double glazing, or a conservatory. Without buckets of cash there is little alternative for us mortals. But I don't live in a cave or keep my cash under the mattress.
What would be useful would be if there is any SPECIFIC EVIDENCE of malpractice with this type of deal, or if there is any evidence that what is being offered by the Club Class Concierge is unattainable or misrepresented.
Thanks for your concern, we all want the best deal available, and I know there are risks.
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Fred 2
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31-08-2007 04:16 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1872
My Profile
| Even without personally –acquired evidence of malpractice (but there is adverse comment about Club Class around) I really still do not see how it works and I am not financially dim – I think. In fact I think that it is smoke and mirrors.
The only real money floating about is the 8000, let us be quite clear about that. This has to pay for the sales agent's commission (for Holiday Club sales typically a large proportion of the take), the cost of whatever benefit the contract is said to give, and Club Class' profit (their only motive for existing), yet magically to remain intact in a “Trust Fund” so that it can be paid back in full at the end of three years. Since it is said to be put into the Trust Fund entire, at the outset, the only free funds are the interest. Even if it was really invested by the “Trust Fund” at an extremely optimistic 10% compounded monthly and tax free, the interest – the only money added into the equation – is under 2800. This would only be available at the end of the period and would have to pay for everything else. Could it? It is probably less than the agent's commission.
What is the timeshare actually worth on the open market? Less than it was 19 years ago I would imagine, but it is easy to check. Assuming this to be the case why would these nice people at Terra Nova, hard-nosed businessmen to the soles of their feet, pay over the odds for it? Would they be paying cash?
Verbal assurances are one thing, but if it is not in the contract it does not exist. If there is more than one contract for a multi-part deal (one for membership, one for cash back, one for an option to sell a timeshare) and each does not make reference to the others but is separately enforceable that would be worrying. The terms and conditions of the Cashback company itself should be read very carefully indeed prior to signing anything.
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Fred 2
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31-08-2007 04:40 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1872
My Profile
| Or you could look at this, from 2005 but no doubt still quite relevant:
www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/columnists/article.html?in_article_id=401923&in_page_id=19&in_author_id=5
relating to Club Class, the man who owns it and the experience of somebody who tried to claim from a previous cash back scheme promoted by them. May have changed their spots of course..........
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northern62
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01-09-2007 04:35 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 163
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| 5three
Glad to hear someone else thought is was a good deal.
I wish my husband had never found this site.
My only consolation is hundreds have signed up for this deal but only a few have tales of woe.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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Fred 2
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01-09-2007 05:31 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1872
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| Did you count them? Or were you told?
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Dumpling
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01-09-2007 11:38 PM
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Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 5
| Can't believe that I managed to fall for the Club Class Concierge ruse in Tenerife - I think it was partly the four hours spent being 'sold' to and being greedy in thinking this deal is too good to be true.
We bought into a similar deal £8000 for membership of Club Class Concierge and a loan arranged for us in England. Our Marketing company used the reclaim certificate which would pay us all our money back and several thousand more after 51 months.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and by questioning the product and researching the internet we appreciate how it works now and what fools we have been with money we can ill afford to lose.
The whole validity of the deal hinges on the money back from the reclaim certificate. The marketing company are very clever and show you a certificate that is double sided but with the front side repeated on the back. That way you don't actually get to read the small print which states that you will get between 10% and 100% back not 100% as the marketing company promises. Of course the marketing company get you to sign a disclaimer saying that any issues with reclaim are between you and reclaim so they are then in the clear.
Upon receiving your money they pay 12.5% of it to reclaim, a small amount to Club Class Concierge and then the rest is theirs to keep. In the meantime they get someone in the UK to set up a loan for you at around 10% over 84 months, telling you that you will be able to pay it off early after 51 months because of all the money that will then be paid to you by reclaim. Of course when only a tiny proportion of that money arrives from reclaim you cannot pay off your loan so you are stuck with a 7 year loan which will eventually cost you more like £10500!
This of course assumes that you do your reclaim certificate correctly - one tiny mistake or getting the timing wrong and you have lost everything. There are many people who have lost huge amounts of money on this immoral practice but it is currently legal. The main problem is that the literature states that the first part of the reclaim process must be done in a small window of time after a certain date by registered post. What many people do, being keen, is to send the first certificate off on that date and not after it. Immediately they have lost everything. However reclaim will acknowledge the receipt of your certificate but they will not tell you whether it has been done correctly unless you actually ask them. So there are actually hundreds of people out there paying their loans who think they will be getting some or all of their money back when in fact they have already lost the lot. Unless they ask they will not find out until the 51 months is up. Very clever on reclaims part.
The guy in Britain who arranges your loan is quite happy because he will be getting commission from the banks and the banks are very happy to make secured loans at around 10%. The only loser is the poor holidaymaker lured into the scheme by scratchcards etc.
The one thing I am not sure about is how much the marketing companies pay Club Class Concierge and just how good a company Club Class actually are. The postings I have read are not encouraging. Has anyone successfully booked a good holiday deal with them? I would also be interested to know how much other people have paid for their membership of Club Class Concierge? We drove the price down significantly on our deal which makes me think that the actual price paid by the marketing companies to Club Class for each customer membership is very low indeed.
What I do know is that the marketing companies are making an awful lot of money and once each deal is done their profit is made.
Fred is quite right to mount his one man crusade to stop this immoral practice.
In my opinion all reclaim schemes should be stopped - even those on mobile phones, cashbacks etc in the UK. People who are participating are just gambling that they will obtain money that is not really theirs from the proportion of people who make a mistake or miss a date.
The sooner the law is changed to protect the consumer from this type of practice the better!
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northern62
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02-09-2007 04:01 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 163
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| Dumpling,
We were awarded 6 european dream holidays to take within the 59 month period, also stating that we would received vouchers for these once the blance has been paid.
If you equate this(6 holidays) offer over £7500, it does not seem that bad after all!
Was this the same offer you received?
We are trying to decide wether to take the loan over 84 months or pay the balance out right.
It looks like we will have to play along,regardless of cost until they default.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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chick13
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02-09-2007 10:10 PM
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Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 11
My Profile
| Hi all,
I too have been dumbfounded by club class, leisure alliance and premiere travel. Myself and my partner went to spain a couple of years ago and got dragged into their sales office via scratch cards hook line and sinker!
Anyone who has been with club class for a year or so will know its all too confusing.
We put down a deposit and got a loan to pay the rest totalling 6k - WHY? idiot springs to mind! We have sent off our yearly slips confirming our address etc. got couple of years left to supposedly 'reclaim' - but im not holding my breath....
HOWEVER... We did use club class to go on holiday to fueteventura last year wasn't too bad, hotel etc top class but it was such a nightmare to organise! Money wise was reasonable but NOT "Twice the quality - half the price" as they quote...
ANY info on anybody who has tried to claim or has any figures etc. would be greatly appreciated!!!!
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Dumpling
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02-09-2007 11:30 PM
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Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 5
| Northern62
We were given three 'free' holidays for two - they were not tagged as 'Dream' holidays, though. The holidays could be worldwide or European and sounded great. However having received the vouchers we found that they are from a company who organise potential recruits for other holiday companies looking to fill up promotional holidays. It turned out that we had to pay a registration fee with no guarentee of a holiday and we were allowed to specify two holiday dates then they would see what they could match up for us. Often there is nothing available so you then move onto the next phase which involves us paying for one person on the holiday and getting one place free. As we have restricted holiday dates in school holidays it is very unlikely the free holidays will be workable for us even if any are available.
Sorry to be so negative but the whole affair does not have your interests at heart!
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northern62
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03-09-2007 01:42 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 163
My Profile
| Have contacted the Timeshare Association (01909591100) they said forget the legal side to my contract (as they seriously doubt there is one).
They have told me how to write to them etc.
I may or may not get my deposit back but I will be CANCELLING the contract and won't be paying them another penny.
Excellent news I think.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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Fred 2
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03-09-2007 03:09 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1872
My Profile
| Northern62 - I can see no reason why your deposit should not be claimed back in full from your credit card issuer. It is a lot to lose. The cc co is after all jointly liable for any misrepresentation. Send a copy of your cancellation letter with the claim. The cc co will resist, and you have to be persistent. After your initial approach to them you could copy the "thisismoney" article - link above on 31 Aug - and some of the relevant replies given on this thread which will demonstrate the misrepresentation.
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northern62
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03-09-2007 03:46 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 163
My Profile
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thanks for that bit of info FRED 2.
By the way to all that think there is no cooling off period (like we did).
Under "Doorstep" Regulations if you are enticed off the street the contract is null and void.
Timeshare Association: see 2b other rights DOORSTEP REGULATIONS
www.timeshare.org.uk/cancel.htm.
Surley this in itself could enable others to cancel.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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Fred 2
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03-09-2007 04:38 PM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1872
My Profile
| That's what should happen, but unfortunately a lot of people who are caught have gone on a "fly/ buy" and their "presentations" are pre-arranged - and take place on business premises. The only real answer is to shut the b's down - and in the meantime to make a 21 day cooling-off period mandatory (with the requirement to opt-in at the end of it before the contract is valid) for all such so that people can get home, read everything through and get advice and opinions. If that was in force inside two months none of these operations would be making a living.
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pbuckley
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03-09-2007 10:59 PM
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Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 6
| Just one question,have you SEEN the cashback certificate because that is what you will get. Read the small print on the back,i suggest you sit down beforehand good luck.
pbuckley
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bluesox
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04-09-2007 11:24 AM
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Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 22
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| Northern62
If it's of any consolation, it took many months before I received my RECLAIM certificate which I know involves a different holiday club but the
idea is the same.My real concern came when I began checking out forums like this and discovered that the certificate is too all intents and purposes just a 'worthless' piece of paper. I am convinced I returned the certificate back to the Reclaim registered office, and yet I have no confirmation of this and efforts at trying to contact the 'trustees' have turned out to be a waste of time. The reclaim scheme or rather scam was recently exposed after the Dinastia holiday resort was found to be using a Club Class Holiday training manual (which CCH subsequently denied knowledge of) and I was horrified to read how elaborate the 'scam' was/ is when this product was first introduced (although it was given a rather different name at the time).If I say that 4 pages of this training manual were devoted to the selling of this 'cash-back' scheme.
I suggest you check the wording of the contract- it might say that you should receive your 'certificate'within so many days of your club membership being activated.If it is taking so long to get your certificate I suggest you start asking questions as to why you haven't yet received your certificate.
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pbuckley
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04-09-2007 11:59 AM
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Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 6
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northern62,
I joined club class in feb 2003 the so called 5 star holidays consist of unused timeshare weeks ,or timeshare owners rental weeks.
All at limited availability and not at stated cheap prices with so called discounted flights I paid £5,900 with a promise of a 100% cashback after 51 months,another lie as the cash back company only receive a portion of the cash. Our 51 months was up 13/07/2007 for our cashback.We received a letter this morning stating your claim is incorrect
because 51 months ago you sent your registration documents were sent back too early.(wated 51 months to be told that)
and although we received them within the allocated 14 day timescale the DATE MAILED TO US WAS 2 DAYS EARLY. they should have been sent after the start date on the reclaim certificate and not before.
I suggest you listen to what i and Fred2 have said and do not go ahead
with the con merchants. Take a stance and refuse to pay any more money you will get the threats just ignore them.Claim your credit card money back ,if you want proof that you have been conned Go to Fred2
thread on sunday mirror article about club class.
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northern62
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04-09-2007 02:15 PM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 163
My Profile
| BLUESOX
PBUCKLEY
I have not paid the balance yet (£4200) so they wont have sent me anything.
I have (verbally) told them that I will not be completing and that I am cancelling the contract. I have sent written confirmation of this to them today by 'international recorded delivery' and asked for my deposit of £1800 to be returned.
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My Latest Review: Jul 2008 Three Corners Kiroseiz Resort Hotel, Sharm El Sheikh (5/10)
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Club Class Concierge - Page 3
